Interview with Kerry Moorse - Beyond The Dawn
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Interview with Kerry Moorse

Welcome my darling Pretties to our Beyond to the Dawn of Business podcast for pretty empowered female entrepreneurs.

It’s time to step into your power Pretties! Lift each other, support the squad and choose a life filled with the autonomy and freedom to live your dreams.

I’m your host Dawn Beth, the Owner and Founder of Beyond the Dawn digital business brand and agency. My coffee is hot and my eyelashes are on, so we are ready to go!

 

I want all female entrepreneurs to feel empowered, supported and loved, and given the opportunity to really connect with other female powerhouses in the industry, in a way in which we lift each other up and inspire each other, and take care of each other in ways that we have previously not seen in business, possibly, listen to us waffling on about business and life our families, and our mindset, our financial goals and our freedoms and our autonomy. And what we hope for the world and what we hope for you, what we hope for ourselves, and all of the things that we’ve experienced through this very colorful journey of becoming successful female entrepreneurs and digital business owners.

If you want to know more you want to learn more, you want to be in a connected network of soulful heart centered female entrepreneurs to help guide and support you in your journey, and sometimes you still understand what it is that you’re going through whilst you’re building your empire, then you are in the right place. To listen to this podcast visit our channel on Apple or Spotify and remember to subscribe for future release updates!

In this episode Dawn and Kerry discuss the questions they are often asked, relationship marketing and ethical funnels.

We hear discussions around building relationships and good boundaries within business and how Dawn relates to a particular line in the film You’ve Got Mail when it comes to business being so integral to personal connections.

Dawn Baxter 

Hey, hey, Pretties!  Welcome to today’s episode, I am really stoked to be able to welcome and introduce my lovely dear friend Kerry Moorse. And we often call each other Ant and Dec, although I don’t think we’ve ever figured out which one of us is Ant and which one of us is Dec! And today, I have invited this gorgeous human onto our podcast, so that we can talk about all things to do with digital business that me and Kerry come across all of the time. So first of all, hey, thanks for coming on my show Kerry.

Kerry Moorse 

No worries, thank you so much for having me I’ve been super excited to get onto here just to join in all of the podcast banter you’ve been having. I’ve been loving listening to your episodes, and hello to all the Pretties out there.

Dawn Baxter 

And what’s really lovely is that every time we have had any opportunities to record video, and we’ve had plenty of opportunities, because we work together quite regularly but everybody always says how calming your voice is and how you should like record all sorts of different things like meditations and ASMR and all of that stuff. So I know that people are gonna really enjoy listening to you today cuz you just have like the most lulling, relaxing voice .

Kerry Moorse 

Voice funds out there, isn’t it?  I think it’s because when I’m teaching, I go into this calm mode. And I sort of yeah, I just go through it methodically, I either send them to sleep or I guess it works. I don’t know.

Dawn Baxter

It definitely, definitely works. And I mean, that kind of ties in lovely to what we’re going to talk about today. Because you and I, we have a really unique and beautiful experience when it comes to our clients. And I often think that people come to us because they think that we are the magic sauce. That will be the thing that lifts their business. And what I really love about all of the conversations that we’ve had together and conversations and trainings that we’ve provided for our people, is actually our clients tend to be the genius and we just help them pull that genius out of themselves. Right?

Kerry Moorse

Yeah, definitely. It’s just about uplifting people to believe that they can do things as well as showing them how, in a way, it’s just about making it all make sense and being intentional about everything as well, rather than running into scatty land of creating here, there and everywhere. And I think we both complement so well with what we do together. Because I’m on the tech side along with the visibility and the social and you do coaching too that I think it just really creates a great dynamic so that people can get all of their headset and get everything done as well. So that it just all works then without you know scatty-brain going crazy.

Dawn Baxter

Yeah. Yeah. And my like, biggest question that I get asked all the time, is, what is the one main thing that you can do wrong on social media? So I’m going to answer that question. And then I’m going to ask you what your main question like what your top number one question is that you get asked all of the time? Yeah, because I always think that these are really cool areas for us to kind of look into. And that is the question I get all the time, like, what can I do wrong? Like, what if I go and try this thing? Or if I do this thing? What’s the main thing I can do wrong? That’s the major question I get all of the time. And you know the top one thing that people do wrong in terms of their social media strategy, their marketing and all of the good stuff that we talk about when we’re trying to build that area of their business is that they can be unsure. They can be unsure about who it is they’re trying to target, who it is they want to work with, what their message is, and if they’re unsure, they may feel sure right now. But then a couple of weeks down the line, a couple of months down the line, they may change their mind. They want to concentrate on this new thing or they want to change their narrative or their messaging to this thing. And that by far is literally I feel the biggest thing that you can do wrong, and maybe the only thing that you can do wrong because everything else is testing, everything else is learning, everything else is actually getting your feet wet on all of these different mediums that we discuss. And when it comes to social media strategy, not knowing which direction you want to go is probably the most problematic thing that we have. And it happens across the board, both with people who coach with me, and also on our social media side, you know, it goes right through the entire company. And I always think that that’s like a really interesting thing to consider that if you just know what your messaging is, if you know what your ideal client wants from you, and you can look down that area, then pretty much everything from that point, you can grow from, everything from that point you can learn from, how about you? What’s your biggest kind of like, number one question everybody asks? 

Kerry Moorse

Oh, gosh.  Well, I’d like to own your point. Do you know what that is actually, across the board. So it’s not just social, we have the exact same problem with people’s funnels and customer journeys, because they create 50 different ways to get people into their list with no clear path, no alignment between what they’re actually selling, and what they’re getting people in for. So it’s really similar, and it’s interesting to hear you talk about the messaging, because that’s what we find it a problem, too. Yeah. Where people are scattering different types of messaging to different types of audiences. But there’s no clear path all the way up. So yeah that’s, I think that’s a big one, actually, really. So yeah, but in terms of the biggest question people ask me, I wouldn’t say it’s a question specifically, I’d say most people come to me with a fear of tech. They have two fears, even they’re gonna have to do the tech themselves and that just stops people moving completely. Or they don’t have time to do the tech themselves. And that stops them moving completely. So that tends to be the blockage. This, this fear of thinking they’re going to have to spend hours Googling, have to get it wrong, have to do all these things, when really, it’s way simpler than people think. But it all goes back to like you say, approaching it creatively, rather than thinking of funnels and customer journey as tech and approaching it from a creative standpoint of what experience am I creating here? So I hate the word funnels completely, really, I only use it because that’s what people associate with what I do, building funnels. But really, it’s just the experience, just like any event or experience you would go to, and creating that whole ethos, and by all the way through for how you’re going to be working with them.

Dawn Baxter

That’s amazing. That’s so powerful. And I had no idea that you didn’t like the word funnels, I had no idea!

Kerry Moorse

Yeah, so I actually called my group didn’t I, with the word funnel in, called What The Funnel, because everybody thinks that and everyone teaches that it’s a funnel. But I just think that’s such a, I don’t know, such a marketing-y new way to describe it here. It turns everyone into a lead, and it makes it quite calculating rather than relationship based.

Dawn Baxter

Yes. And that’s where you and I really agree, at the kind of in our core, isn’t it that actually, in order for you to have a sustainable, not just immediately successful, because a lot of people run after that immediate success. They don’t realise that actually, there is no such thing as an overnight success. And that immediate success, when it happens is often a hollow success. It’s sustainable – I nearly couldn’t say that word then, put my teeth back in!  It’s sustainable success, and it’s on your terms, success, that whatever that looks like to you, because we have so many people that come to us, and their goals are not about being the next billionaire, you know, they’re not interested in going to, I don’t know, like the Shard and having fancy dinners with billionaire businessmen, that’s just not where they’re at. They just want the normal things in life that everybody kind of wants, like time with their children and their family or, you know, time to travel or the autonomy to say no to jobs that you don’t feel aligned with. I mean, it’s the same as what you’ve come across.

Kerry Moorse

Yeah, definitely. I actually did a live earlier on this today. Talking about I know it’s really odd, isn’t it?

Dawn Baxter

That’s amazing. So we’ve done that thing again, where we’ve synchronised and we didn’t know we’ve done it.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah. So I came on here, not knowing what we were going to talk about yet, but this works really well. But yeah, my live was all about how people focus so much on that the lifestyle they want, that they don’t create the business style they want to get there. And you see this you see a lot of this immediate success. And then it’s not sustainable because they have you set in their business, lifestyle that they want to work four hours a day, but to get that success they have to work 18. So that’s an unsustainable model that they’re creating right from the beginning. And then when they tried to draw back, they get what we call second launch dip. And this is when in the industry we have these second launches, which often don’t do well, because they haven’t been able to make that time to bring in a new audience, and they’re just reselling to the same people. It’s this focus, this mindset shift of once someone’s had some success that they need to then go, okay did I do that sustainably? Do I need to bring in a new audience to do it in a different way? Because otherwise, it all falls down a little bit like Jenga? Oh, and then there’s the panic launch that follows because you haven’t done as well. And you go, oh, quick, I better do it again and that one flops.

Dawn Baxter 

And, you know, how many times have you seen that cycle happen?

Kerry Moorse 

I wouldn’t say loads, because I often advise against, but I’ve seen it happen externally a lot. I have seen it with some clients in my earlier days, where, you know, I wasn’t really as directive then. And it would, it would happen a lot. And I’ve seen it happen to friends a lot it really does. Because once people have done something successfully, they do believe that’s the blueprint. But if that blueprint involves unsustainability in the way they want to run their business, it’s not a blueprint at all. It’s a never ending burnout cycle, which is never going to work.

Dawn Baxter 

|That’s so interesting and like I’ve always thought that I really like looking at other people’s models, I really like looking at different people’s blueprints as you will. And I love taking the pieces that fit for me and just having a bespoke, like I devise the whole thing. And yes, okay, I know that this thing works. So I’ll like a pick and mix, I’ll take some of that. I know that this thing works, so I’ll take some of that. And quite often with that kind of all the time strategy, not just also with launch, but all the time strategy, I really love being able to see lots of different ways to do it both in evergreen and live situations. And then picking what works for me and dropping what I don’t feel aligned with or even sometimes just what I feel like I don’t have the energy for because there’s been loads of times when we’ve created weeks and weeks and weeks of fantastic sales situations that you couldn’t ever call a launch. You couldn’t ever call it a launch.

Kerry Moorse 

Definitely, yeah. And it’s just revenue. Yeah, really, rather than being a launch. And it’s interesting isn’t it how we, we look at somebody’s blueprint and we follow it without ever applying it to our own audiences and lives. And that’s what I’m really trying to break people out of that cycle of doing. And I know you do that with your social as well you’re very tailored to their world and their business and what they want to be doing. Or do you know what I remember when we did a, we run a video together? So we were Ant and Dec-ing it. We were – I can’t remember what we were teaching. But I remember saying, right, because I’m quite efficient sometimes I was like right, we’re going to do this and this time I think you said, well, I can’t promise to do it in that time, but let’s give it a go. Because I know you love to expand and explore all the different topics and just thinking about it. That is why a podcast is so perfect for you. Because you’re so good at exploring things like that. But I’ll never forget that and it made me laugh because we are a little bit different in that sense sometimes, aren’t we?

Dawn Baxter 

We are but I mean, that’s one of the reasons why I adore you. Because I feel like when we get together, you give me a different side of that coin, like we complement each other. But you you’ve always got that great angle that I haven’t considered and I just love that about our partnership. It’s something that I treasure, because I think you need people around you that give you different perspectives and allow you to kind of explore those different areas. And you also have to be open to that I know a lot of people that have kind of a fixed mindset. And that can be a difficult thing to overcome when you’re around brilliant people. Listen, you know, and I and I’ve always really enjoyed the relationships that we’ve made together with other people and the relationships that I’ve made throughout my business. Just actually soaking up other people’s ideas and opinions and being able to understand that perspective. It may not always fit for me, but it’s  just so illuminating to look at things with a different lens.

Kerry Moorse 

Oh, definitely. I think so. I mean, surrounding yourself with lots of different avenues, sort of creates your own sort of vibe as well, you know?  You get to take all the things that resonate with you and turn it into something new. And, for example, when I’m around you, my boundaries get stronger. Something I know about you, you have strong boundaries. If I’m having a wobble, I know who’s going to set me straight.

Dawn Baxter 

Yes, I didn’t always I didn’t always but I’ve learned the hard way how necessary they are. And yeah, totally, totally. 

Kerry Moorse 

But yeah, it’s just this great insight into everybody around you, who you just turn into family, which is, you know, something we’re missing a lot in the business space, a lot of it is quite orchestrated, just marketing. And there’s a lot of shallow relationships, when really once those have developed into real relationships, it’s magical. And you can create something, which is so much more than just a business, you know?

Dawn Baxter 

That’s it, like in my industry, and I know, we’ve spoken about this a lot in, in the past, in my industry, it’s almost kind of promoted that you go, and you create these hollow friendships that you don’t genuinely believe in them. And I don’t understand where that comes from. First of all, I’m not good with that. I can’t do that it shows all over my face, whether I like you as a person. I can’t fake that. And, you know, I always give people the benefit of the doubt. And even the people who I know, are not particularly fans, and I like to call them the I hate Rachel Green club, because I do have a quiet significant group of haters. Hey, if you’re listening, and I’m grateful for them, too, because in truth, I think my relationships, my genuine relationships of which you of course, are one of, I think it’s been such a beautiful gift for me and you need that other side. Sometimes you need to be able to recognise what is a purely business perspective, and what is a genuine friendship, I’m not good with that. I, I tend to just adore people that I’ve worked with, like, if I’ve given you my energy in that space, I find it very difficult for that, to not be like a personal thing. And this might make you giggle Kerry, but my favourite film, out of all the films, which is ridiculous, I know all my favourite film is You’ve Got Mail have you seen that movie?

Kerry Moorse

I’m going to make a really awful admission that I haven’t.

Dawn Baxter

Okay, so that’s okay. So there’s a part it’s got Meg Ryan in it and it’s got Tom Hanks in it. And it’s such a kind of like early 90s Rom Com. And it’s the step after, Sleepless in Seattle its that kind of thing. And there’s a part where her business is going under because a bigger chain has come in and become a competitor and she has this tiny bespoke lovely, very personal business that is built on relationships and time and generations of people knowing each other in the old style. And this big competitor, who is Tom Hanks, they have this big kind of chain bookstore, and they don’t really care about the people initially. They’re just a big brand, and they don’t know people by name, they don’t know, you know, somebody’s child’s birthday or anything like that. And in one of the exchanges that they have, he says to her, it’s not personal, it’s just business and then towards the end of the film, she says like, what does that even mean? Because it’s my business it’s personal to me and no matter what happens, or whatever I do, it should start by being personal. And that that I never realised how much that kind of like seeped into my adolescent brain and kind of took root in there. But that is almost like my entire internal ethos. I find it really, really difficult to disconnect. And I don’t really understand why I should disconnect those two parts.  Boundaries yes, professionalism yes, genuine, fruitful relationships where you care about the other people and where you actually build something that means something yes?

Kerry Moorse 

Yes, definitely. So I bet there’s people listening to this now and thinking, oh, gosh, you know, I’ve got some great friendships, but then maybe there’s some people I know who I, you know, it’s really convenient for me to know that perhaps it’s not a great sort of longer term thing. What would you suggest for them? I mean, I’m just thinking about it, because I’ve had clients before and I know, you know, they’ve gone for opportunities, because it’s an opportunity and not because it’s a genuine thing before. Yeah. Yeah. I just wondered what your thoughts would be on that?

Dawn Baxter 

That’s a great question. I mean, what I would always say and this is something that I say all the time to the Pretties, especially in one to one situations. Don’t ever leave money, people or opportunities on the table. Like, think about the cost of a lost opportunity. Because that is using your strict business brain, however, just have an open mind. You know, if you know that you’re going into a situation and you’re doing it on a shallow level, and it’s a bit the same as you know, people who friend request your Facebook and then invite you immediately to their page and their group?

Kerry Moorse

Yeah, that really annoys me.

Dawn Baxter

It is so annoying, right? Like, it’s just a really bad spammy practice. And basically, what somebody is saying to you, by doing that is you are a number to me. So, there is a sweet balance between that and like being totally in love with the person. I mean like the best friends with them, like I understand that. But like, don’t leave the opportunity, but be open to the fact that you could actually make real relationships, be genuine, be authentic. And if you’re in a situation where you don’t think it’s genuine, where you think it’s falsified, and everybody’s social climbing, and it’s, you know, it’s a lot of that fakery, then remove yourself in a dignified and professional way. Like, I’m not suggesting we start calling people out or doing anything that would go against our integrity, but just know yourself with our internal compass, that actually, because what that actually is, in truth is that there isn’t, there’s a human being on the other side of that, that has a giant wall up. And they’re performing for everybody else’s benefit, but they’re not showing you the real person. So you can, you can like, we’re like a moth to a light bulb, go and start banging your head on that light bulb thinking that you’re creating a relationship with that person, because they’re still shining, because you still have access to that light. But actually, you’re never getting inside towards the actual true light of that person because that wall is always there. And there is something that is very difficult to put your finger on. But there are ways to figure out when you’ve gotten into a situation. And a relationship, you think you’re building in a genuine way isn’t coming back to you. And it’s about that energy exchange, we talk about energy exchange when it comes to money. And when we come to collaborations and things like that. It’s a very similar thing. I had a best friend at high school, who I would have said was like literally the bestest friend in the world to me. And she was during that time, like she was there for a season and she was a really good friend, I felt at least at that time. When I went to university and I made other friends I actually came back and had my 21st birthday back in my hometown and she didn’t turn up to the party so I rang her up and I said, come on down to the party. Like this is my 21st you can’t miss it. And she did eventually she had to have her arm twisted. She did eventually. And when she came she had no money, so I had to pay for everything. And then she wouldn’t talk to my friends from university, like she was not interested in getting involved. Yeah, it was like the most awkward thing in the world. And I never I couldn’t figure out what’s going on. Like, this is my bestest friend in the world. Right? Like, she cares about me and therefore she, you know, these people also care about me. So there’s your common ground. There’s your in. Anyway, she she wouldn’t continue. We weren’t somewhere else after the party. She didn’t want to come with us. She never did. And I made a conscious decision there was just something and I made a conscious decision that I was going to not call her again. I was going to wait and see how long it took for her to ring me first. And I don’t know what it was

Kerry Moorse

Oh dangerous ground.

Dawn Baxter 

Right. So like I, I didn’t know what had switched in my head but something had just gone no Dawn, energy exchange, you’re always the person that brings this person out. You’re always the person who texts first, you’re always the person who rings up, your is the person who pays, who delivers, who coerces, who creates, like, what happens if you stop like, how long will it take for that person to realise that actually, this is a two way street. The phone line goes both ways. And what was really hilarious about that was I didn’t hear from that person until I was nearly 26. I got a card through the door at the house. I was living at the time with my husband, baby just been born. And I got a card to congratulate me on Bailey’s birth. She never rang me again. The year after that party, my dad passed away, she wasn’t there. No phone call, she didn’t turn up to the funeral. Nothing. So I got that card and thought well, it’s too late now. And that was it. The card went in the bin, she actually lives around the corner from me right now and we see each other quite regularly and we walk past each other like strangers and it’s sad, right? But I think there is something in us as humans innately that we know when we’re connecting to somebody on a genuine level, like we know, we can be vulnerable. And it’s looking for that moment and thinking, actually, if I think I have this really amazing relationship with this person, how long is it until we speak next time? Like, how long is it until they come to me with something? Because it’s like with you and me, for instance? If you said to me, Dawnie, I sent you something a couple of weeks ago on Facebook Messenger, can you find it for me? I’d be like, Nah, I can’t. Because we speak so regularly it is a continuous conversation, right? Like neither of us start it, it’s just, it’s ever going.

Kerry Moorse

Ongoing. Yeah. I mean, it’s, yeah, it’s evolving. We never go back and scroll through.

Dawn Baxter

You can’t find a damn thing. And that thing, which is, I think is like a beautiful thing, because it just proves that we, we chat, and we check in and we have each other’s back all the time.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, and you know what I think? I think it takes a little bit of bravery as well innately, nobody wants to feel unwanted. So recognising the situation and stepping back when it’s not a relationship that’s genuine in business or in life, it’s being able to do that and step back. And to let go of that. And that can be really difficult, I think. But yeah, a bit of bravery it takes but in the long run, it will releases you so much. So I think it’s definitely a well worth Eat That Frog moment.

Dawn Baxter 

I totally agree. And on the very rare, like times that it’s happened that I’ve actually reached out and felt like I was building a genuine connection with somebody to find that actually, I wasn’t, I never felt like that time was wasted. Like, I’ve always felt like there was a learning in there for me, there was a lesson in there for me. And also, I think there’s something to be said, for just living within your own truth. I know that I can sleep well, at night, knowing that I did my best I genuinely cared and had they’ve given me the opportunity and like, released that wall, then we could have been friends. And I think that that’s just something that you have to be able to occasionally put yourself out and try.

Kerry Moorse 

Yes, definitely. And I think if as long as everyone in a relationship brings value to it, as well, especially in business, because otherwise you can make 100 friends, and it would just be a Friendship Circle rather than a business as well it’s got to be a fruitful relationship in those ways, too. There’s got to be synergies and alignment, the same values and the same sort of drive. And, you know, that kind of thing. For it to, I guess you wouldn’t even connect with people unless that was the case any way, you know?

Dawn Baxter 

I agree. And I think you used a really fantastic powerful word there because you said synergy. That’s such a good word for what it is. And it’s like, we talk all the time, like literally probably 90% of the time that you and I are training or talking with clients, we’re talking about audience building. And we’re talking about the ways in which people can almost create their own Marvel multiverse within their business of their own people, like the people that they are truly aligned with, their ideal clients, people have similar ideas, feelings, thoughts, you know, all of these amazing things that does give you that synchronicity. And it’s the same when it comes to relationship building with other business owners, right with collaborations and with people that you work with, and all of those things.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, definitely. And you know, what, I know we were sort of talking in and out of this. But it really boils down to being pretty simple. And it just boils down to knowing where you’re going, you know, and who you’re working with, and who you want to work with, and what you want your business to look like. And I think once those decisions are made, everything else becomes so much easier. And it’s only because everything feels muddled. Because you aren’t streamlined in that way. Yeah, I feel like that’s probably the biggest thing for most of the clients we have in common with those kind of problems.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah, I would totally agree. And I think I mean, I don’t know if you feel this way but for me, starting my business, I thought was just going to be a financial practice, it was going to be just a business. And it hasn’t been that, it’s been something so much more than that. It’s been like a personal journey, I’ve had to really, truly learn more about myself as a human, that anything else and you know, I could tell you all the qualifications I’ve been and got, I could tell you all the experience I’ve got, I could tell you everything that’s happened with the agency and everything that’s happened with the business growth, but actually the biggest learning out of all of that has being who I truly am.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, definitely. I’d agree with that for myself, too. I think I start started out with the sole aim in life and it still is an aim guys of not getting a job.

Dawn Baxter

It’s a beautiful goal. 

Kerry Moorse

I left university started my first business, I didn’t want a job. I think I made about 500 pounds a month, okay, we went around the supermarket with a calculator between me and my now husband, and we didn’t care we loved it, absolutely loved it. And, you know, it was not we never even thought oh, what if we didn’t have to walk around the calculator, you know, we just gradually grew into that. And then my second business, I made so many mistakes, I don’t even want to remember them. But they’ve taught me so much, that by the time coming into this one, I knew how to sculpt it, you know, to make how I was, who I wanted to be and what I wanted to do, and serve. And even the start of this business it took me a while to still get to that point, I would say.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah, and like, I don’t know, do you feel like it’s been a journey? Because I look at my business now and there’s no end point for me. It’s almost like one of those lava lamps, I can just see it constantly moving and evolving and changing shape. But I don’t think there’s ever going to be a point where I’m like, okay, so this is it we’ve hit the business structure that we want out because I’m so ideas-y and I know you are too. Like, there’s always another thing that we can maybe consider another theme to tap into,do you feel the same?

Kerry Moorse 

I almost feel I love the analogy of the lava lamp. I really love it. Because that is that really iconic, I think I think you should use that sometime.  People usually say like a path or a ladder and for me, it’s not because I want something that I can evolve as I grow and change. So I always think of it as a bit of an epiphany step. So something I do with my one to ones is epiphany ladders for the journey. And so we would say, okay, where am I right now? What is it that I already know that got me here? And what will I need to know next? And then that kind of spiders out into this crazy diagram of all the different things and you choose the one, you know, all the things you might need to know next, which is the way that you go to next and you do it all again, you know. And so I just feel like it’s this evolving spiral of whatever you want it to be. I know for a fact that, you know, I’m hoping to start a family so that would mean, my business will change a lot. Because right now, you know, spending my couple of hours out in the sunshine on the decking is probably not going to be on the agenda when that happens. But priorities will change. And I think a business should be able to adapt with your priorities too.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah. And if there’s one person who can clearly see that pathway thinking about adaptability, I feel like it is you because you always understand that way, like nothing is ever fixed. And that’s what I love when we work with people is because like I said at the beginning, like people think we have this secret sauce, like they’ll come to me I’ll give them X, Y and Z and they’ll go away, and they’ll do X, Y, and Z, and then next year, they’ll be a millionaire. And that’s not how it works. Like you’ve come to me and you say, right, I want X, Y and Z. And I’m like, do you really want X, Y and Z? Why is X going to work for you? Like what is it that you really require? What is it you really want? What is it you really need? I blew somebody’s mind the other day, when I was talking about the way in which you can structure a Facebook group. And I gave them just off the top of my head, maybe five or six different models that we as an agency have devised for completely different messaging, for completely different community builds, completely different structures and because they’ve only seen one or two archetypes of a community in a Facebook group, they just, it just wasn’t on their radar that actually, there are those of us out here, looking at all of the features, looking at all of the different things that can be done. And we’re almost, you know, getting into that matrix and changing the code slightly so that it suits our world and that’s something that I always find fascinating. I think sometimes when we’re in it, we forget how much we know about it and actually how much out there, there isn’t when it comes to that sort of stuff. And that’s why the tech stuff I always think is so exciting when people come to work with you for the tech because you just open the lid on the possibilities.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah. Oh, there’s so many ways to do things aren’t there?  I mean, I think the problem is there’s a lot of cookie cutter situations that people buy into, which don’t work for them. But there’s so many ways I mean of making things work, especially with tech and especially with your own customer journey and everything else that you’re doing, that knowing, so some people will just want the simplest way, some people will want the way that gives them the most statistics, somepeople will want the way that their team can manage different things so that it can work for that business.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah. And I love that bespoke element because I feel like and you know, I say this all the time, I don’t believe in national awareness days, I don’t believe in beige cookie cutters like swipe files for your captions. I mean, I begrudgingly now gave caption prompts in my free group and in my pro members group, but they are written by me and the team because I will not will not use the same old same old stuff, it just doesn’t work. And actually the best prompt that you can have, whenever you sharing anything to do with your messaging, whether it would be on an opt in page copy, or whether it’s a sales page copy, or whether it’s your socials is that it needs to come from you and your what it is you’re actually trying to achieve. What’s your aim be? Like where is your client right now? Where is it, you’re taking them to, because talk like in a national Talk Like a Pirate Day on the 21st of September, or whenever it is, is not relevant to your client, right? So, like, I can sell you a calendar or a spreadsheet or whatever, that gives you all the national holidays, and you depending on your niche, you might pick one or two that’s actually relevant. And even then, it’s almost like, you know, it’s just beige, I call it beige. And that’s what I say as, it’s got no flavour, it’s got none of your, your vibe or your essence in there. Do you find the same thing with like website tech, opt in pages and things?

Kerry Moorse 

Yes, I do, I find that if people aren’t sure of who they are, as a business, we have to spend more time first working on that, because they’ll come to me with a website somebody else has and says, oh, this is what I would like. And I will say, I’m not sure about that. I don’t think is. So we have to then work together on something to see what elements they like. But really, they don’t want it to be like anyone else’s. They’re usually more from a place of fear of not knowing themselves enough. So they’re gonna go and copy someone successful, who has a completely different vibe, when they were first starting out. So it’s obviously just gonna look copycat, which is really icky. 

Dawn Baxter

It’s so icky, and it’s ineffective.

Kerry Moorse

It really is, it does not work. And I think this is why everyone needs to develop their own path and to have their own intentional sort of vibe, and that to run through everything they do. And, you know, sometimes you may feel you’re over exaggerating by, so you really into your dog, and you’re posting all the time about your dog. But people only see what percentage of that posts, you know, they don’t read all of them unless they’re really dedicated.

Dawn Baxter 

Well, that’s it. I mean, as soon as you post something out, if we’re going to use social media as an example, you have lots of gateways you have to get through. First of all, you have to get through whatever algorithm you’re dealing with. And the algorithm is like the bouncer on the door and you know, he’s going to decide who’s getting in and he’s going to let a certain percentage of the people that are online right now see what you’ve got. And he might let a certain percentage of the people who are online later see it on their newsfeed. But then how those initial first set of people see it determines how many more people are allowed into the party. So I think what’s really good is even if you have a fantastic audience that are watching everything that you do, which by the way, even if you have a fantastic audience, it never happens. But say for sake of argument, they were literally waiting with bated breath for you to post  even if they did say it, they might not take it in.  People need these things to be repeated. And I’ve heard so many conflicting numbers, you might have a more accurate data span for this right now. But at one stage, when it was customer facing stuff, it would be seven times somebody would need to see your face that be customer facing for them to feel like they know, like and trust you. And then on the digital space, it was like 21 times and then I had the lovely Zoe Dew come in and do a training for me once and she actually said that it was more like 50 and it’s getting more and more and more that people are actually especially depending on what kind of circles they’re in because we work with female entrepreneurs who are in entrepreneurial circles, right? So they’re exposed to more of the same of what they’re doing, which can skew your perception, make you think everybody out there is seeing everything and that they know what you know. And that’s just not it, you have to repeat, you have to get out there. And you have to repurpose. And you have to say the same. That’s why the consistency in the messaging is so important, right?

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I tell you what, why don’t we just make a new calendar. So we said, you know, no national days, we get a new calendar, we’ll pick a different day that’s relevant to our business every day of the week. And, you know, decide on our key topics and values. And there you go done. We’ll start a movement.

Dawn Baxter 

We’ll start a movement, and this is the thing like, whenever we do audience attraction, we’re just coming to the end of audience attraction 2021. And it’s always the most beautiful time because we’ve gone through, we’ve gone through all of the kind of tangible, practical information, we’ve gone through the digital marketing information, we’ve gone through statistics, we’ve gone through the numbers, you know, we know how to look at our metrics, we know how to look at our insights. And now’s the time that you just really have to step into your light, you step into your power, and it’s your bespoke moment to actually make it whatever it is that you really want to make it. And I always think that’s such a beautiful thing. And what I really love about what you do, is that you create ways for people to show up. So it’s like, we may teach people on one side how to make a beautiful graphic and how to like get on stage and be there. And you’re like the person who gets everybody there to sit in the seats so that person can really shine. And you give all of these different ways for their audiences to actually show up for them and it flips that switch.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, and you know what, it’s so much easier than people think people overcomplicate this so much. And it’s just as easy as deciding, you know, those initial few questions, we talked about who you are, who your audience are, what you’re selling, and how it helps. And I know that sounds so basic, like it really does, but it’s so right. And I think we pivot so much, and we change so much, that we don’t go back to that basic enough. I mean, a lot of people come to me because their system is all in a mess, because they’ve changed four times, and they’re not sure what their audience are keeping up with them. They’ve got, you know, five different freebies, some of these were for this part of the business. And some of these are no longer relevant. And some of these are now and they just go oh my goodness, I don’t even know if my audience want this. I’m selling this new thing are they even relevant anymore? And when people get really confused, I just tell them to go back to their audience and get some content bank stuff. So what are people saying? What questions are they asking? What’s the language they’re using? And then use that for yourself. And it helps you reposition yourself to understand what how what you’re doing is resonating with them. So yeah, I think it’s, you know, it’s not rocket science. But I think it’s breaking away from that mold of cookie cutter, kind of this is the only way to do things, sort of coaching slash world in a way.

Dawn Baxter 

That makes total sense. And I think this is why we really like editable things like you and I have a love for things that are editable. Because it just gives people a framework, but not anything that is set beyond them being able to make it their own. And I love that I always think that that is just one of like, the nicest things that you can do when you give people tools. Is just give, give them something so they can get on their feet. And they can understand the process, but then allow it to be totally fluid to whatever it is that they whatever it is that they need.

Kerry Moorse 

100% I mean, I mean, I remember getting a call from a client, and she was in pretty het-up panic. We’re in launch mode, and that can be pretty stressful. And she was trying to, I think, develop on a house at the same time. And it was all getting too much. And she was only ringing to ask my permission to move her own launch back and that was it. She felt she couldn’t because she was following this plan that she’d been given and she felt she had to stick to it. It’s like no, it’s your business. One no one knows it’s happening yet, you can put it wherever you want. Two, you know, good, take a break, relax a bit, you know, do you want to change it all up, do it. You know, that’s, it’s really about what works.

Dawn Baxter 

I love that. I love that. And I think one of the things that I’ve really enjoyed about having a business Is that autonomy and I use that word consciously all of the time, autonomy, autonomy, autonomy, because that’s one of the greatest treasures I believe, in working in the way that we work is that there is nobody to ask permission. There is nobody who can tell us no, there’s nobody who can tell us that that idea won’t work. I mean, I come from a corporate background where I wasn’t in a position to always execute the ideas. And again, like through gatekeepers, you have an idea and you pitch it to one person, and then they have to be on board before anybody else hears it, and then they have to be on board before anyone else will hear it. And by the time you get to the end, almost like the excitements gone out of it. And oftentimes, as well as such a fast paced business world, sometimes the opportunity is gone. Like we have  in our businesses the opportunity to see something happening. And we don’t have to ask anybody else’s permission, we can literally jump on it straight away and we saw this, I don’t know if you saw the amazing Weetabix and beans fiasco on social?

Kerry Moorse

Yes I did, yes I saw that. That was on Twitter wasn’t it?

Dawn Baxter

That was on Twitter. And it was so hilarious and it was the work of some of the most genius, hilarious social people. Just the best social media managers in the country came together and snowballed. And, you know, it isn’t a situation whereby everybody had a meeting beforehand and said, we’re going to do this, this and this, it was a situation where we knew that Weetabix and beans were going to do it, we knew that that was going to go out and you had a very short amount of reaction time to decide whether you were going to be on board with it. The people who had the autonomy to make that decision for themselves, there were those that were in those situations, and they’re allowed to post on behalf of the brand. You will see if you look at the timeline, they jumped straight on it. It was quick, it was witty, and before you knew it essentially supported that trend going up, right? But there were a number of people who wanted to be involved that couldn’t post because they didn’t have the autonomy, the authority from their brand. They needed somebody to say yes, that’s okay I clear that. And they missed the boat. And four days later, these funny posts kept coming out these secondary posts, and don’t get me wrong, they were still great. But there was definitely an upward spiral. It’s like surfing, that there was so many of them that were on the top riding that wave that, you know, by the time it’s over and done with you still got a few people trying to talk about it and the moments gone. It’s gone.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah. So having that autonomy, I think that’s the magic of why a lot of us are in business. You know, being our own person, our own boss, that’s definitely true for me. Although I will admit, I definitely lost that by working for a lot of clients at once. And I remember a phase where I was working as if I had 50 bosses, you know, and I was the yes girl to all of them. So I had a brilliant, brilliant coach who sort of rechanged up my business model for that with me. And that changed everything and that was all about stepping into my own decisions and running things rather than being run by everyone else. And I think being able to do that and step into it in a way you can take control is the game changer for so many people. I think that takes you from almost being, I don’t know creating a job for yourself to creating that business.

Dawn Baxter 

I love that. I love that. Because I think those of us that have got those people pleasing tendencies, we can accidentally slip into creating unachievable levels of expectation on ourselves, on behalf of our clients. And I was having a really amazing conversation with some ladies that I’m currently on a course with yesterday, and we were talking about this and we were talking about how you can almost directly draw a line from that to your own feeling of confidence and self worth. I know when I used to people please. It was because I wanted them to be happy obviously but also there was a part of me that wanted to validate that I was as good as I said I was, that I was as good as other people said I was when they were referring me, like I wanted to show up as that person who was just so amazing at their job. And I don’t feel the need to do that as much now. I also I loved the way that you describe that in terms of switching up your business model because I used to think that from the from the old style of kind of thinking like the customer is all right, and I adore all of our customers. But I’m here to tell you that there has been plenty of times when our customers, as beautiful as they are, they are wrong, they don’t understand what they want. They don’t understand what they need. And they’ve hired me to be able to guide them through that process. And they hired me to be able to support them. Now, oftentimes people will come to us and say, Dawn I really want this thing and I will give them the option, like, I would love to work with you on this and I would love to develop this for you because I feel like there’s more that I can bring to this. No, no, I just, I just want this one thing, well if it’s in the agency side of things like a design or a management, then I will, you know, obviously, we will give you that one thing. But that that one thing, if you’re not willing to have that open mindset, if you’re not willing to have those discussions, if you’re not willing to kind of truly dig deep into what your actual objective is, then that thing that you think you need might actually not serve you the way you want it to serve you. And if there’s a clear goal, or a result, or an objective it’s so hard for us to be able to support you with that unless we’ve been able to know what that is in development.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, do you know, I came across a thread of web developers and they were talking about that they create many portfolio sites specifically for terrible website designs. Because there were clients out there who really wondered what they wanted, so it looked like they had got a pen and drawn it themselves. And they, that’s what they wanted and would not budge. So regardless of how good that web developer was, and how great a designer they might be, this is what the client wanted they were creating these portfolios of horrific sites, poorly converting, poorly written and clashing, you know, terrible visuals. And people were actually going for it because they went well that’s what I want. And without even thinking about what they might need. And that’s where this element of guidance is so important that you do as well. And, you know, we all do because we care about the outcome for that client. And you do have the occasional ones who say, no, I don’t want any of that. I want this.,

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah you’re so right. And I think it is that sweet balance between knowing what you want and figuring out what you need. But also, it’s not a fixed thing, like if you work with the right people, it’s an open collaborative discussion. And if you were to walk into any big brand in the UK or the US, and you walked into a boardroom, there would not be one person saying, this is the decision I’m making for the entire company, and nobody else is allowed any input, what happens is, discussion occurs, you know, all the different factors that are important to that result driven success occurs, and people bounce ideas, and they discuss and it evolves, and it covers all of the bases, and then comes back to that beautiful spectrum of whatever it was always meant to be. And this is where I think sometimes obviously, being a solopreneur, or a small business owner, we can forget that actually, there are lots of different ways to still have that collaborative thinking, and open discussions and support.

Kerry Moorse 

Definitely, I mean, taking us back to what we were talking about with genuine relationships, having people you can trust with your ideas, yes, who you can bounce off and talk with and get creative with. And they’re just as genuinely pleased for your idea developing as you are. And you know, you have no fear of them, taking any elements of it and things like that. It’s just a creative, collaborative process. And yeah, I think that’s always quite important, because we can get a bit lost in our own genius sometimes. As well, as you know, everybody, everybody thinks they really know what they need. Sometimes they don’t know all the options too.

Dawn Baxter 

That’s true. That’s so true. And I always think that things like that are the gateways to new opportunities. Because I know a number of times I’ve bounced ideas off with people that I trust. And I’ve said, well, I really like this type of idea and I’m thinking about doing this and then on the other side of that conversation sometimes can be somebody saying, oh, Dawn, I do something that’s not the same as that or complements that I do this, this and this, why don’t we do something together? Or why don’t we develop our ideas with the other coin in mind like you and I do that already. We work whenever we create anything in the agency in terms of there’s going to be within your funnels, we’re always thinking about your team and your funnels and what works for you and what’s right and how that can fit in almost seamlessly. And I think that’s such a beautiful thing for the customer for that client, because then they don’t have to worry about everything. Like it’s all just sorted for them but it’s not cookie cutter, it’s totally still bespoke.

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah. And it creates magic, and it just creates such higher value for a product that it just stands out then and you create your own USP that way too, and by bringing in other things you couldn’t even think of because, you know, all you can see what your competitors are doing, competitors are doing, I can’t even say it, did I say that right, competitors?  What your competitors are doing, I’ll say, again, just for clarity that you kind of only see that and other people can see it differently too.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah, I find that word really difficult because I used to say all of the time, like I come from a background where competitor check was a real thing that was a real task. Competitor check was something that you did regularly. And it was multifaceted. It was it was an in person check. It was an online check. It was a market research from the industry, comparison check. And there was lots of different elements to it. And I came into this world saying there is no such thing as a competitor, there are only collaborators, and, you know, other providers. And I’ve realised now that there is when people say competitors, that’s kind of a wide spectrum for somebody who would never be a collaborator, who would never be a friend, so I guess, from that term, you’d have collaborators, other service providers, ad as awful as it is to say it but haters, and I’ve had a really, really funny experience in the last couple of months where I actually got told something about myself, about another industry person, somebody who is well known in my kind of circle. And it was like, oh, this person really hates you, like, she doesn’t like you, because of this thing about you. And the thing that was said about me, it’s not true.

Kerry Moorse

Wow, you’re hearing rumours about yourself now.

Dawn Baxter

Oh, gosh, yeah. And you know, like, it’s part and parcel. And I’ve had so many clients that have come to me and said, Hi, Dawn, I’ve heard that so and so has been talking to me and all of this. And it’s such a difficult situation to move through. But actually, it’s none of our business. It’s nothing to do with us when somebody is talking about us in that way has nothing to do with thoseus. And the person in question I don’t have a relationship with so there’s no hard feelings, I actually, you know, I’m sending lots of love to anybody who is like that, it really does not matter to me, but what I found really interesting was that, even now, even in this great time, and I do feel like there’s been a massive shift in the industry, where we are supporting each other, we’re empowering each other, we’re lifting each other. Not everyone is on board with that still, like people haven’t, like evolved to that point where they’ll take something that’s not even genuine information and use that as a reason to dislike you having not even ever taken the time to get to know who you are and I think that’s sad. But I do also think as well, though, it comes down to when we talk about qualifying leads, it comes down to that same thing, like you’ve got to qualify your circle. And I love that saying that, like if you hang around with five millionaires, you’ll be the sixth. Or if you hang around with five people who can never see the good side of life and can’t find anything positive in any situation, then you’ll be the same. I mean, have you found that to be true with yours as well?

Kerry Moorse 

Yeah, well, so I would say definitely, I mean, the people you hang around with, they just rub off on you, it happens and you can’t even help that, you absorb that. I know there are times when I need to be in a really positive place. So there are people that I will arrange to meet after that time, for example, you know, with love, I will remove any arrangement to meet them to later on. So yeah, for example, my husband, he is the most laid back, positive guy, a sounding board. And how do you yeah, everyday, he pulled me back from crazy ideas. He was like, you’re just gonna get too busy and overwhelmed if you do that. But, you know, I would say his vibe rubbing off on me is a major thing for me and it both lifts us up.  So, for example, you know, me and you, you often make me look way more into myself and set my boundaries and all of that kind of thing, which rubs off on me then as well. And I have other friends with these fantastic qualities and it all just absorbs, so you become a better version of yourself each time. And yeah, exactly the same negatively as well. But yeah, I definitely do have that sort of, by the like some family members who don’t really believe in business, or, you know, don’t really know what I do. So I know for a fact I won’t visit them during times when maybe I’m launching something or going into product creation ideas, or I need to be really creative on a client project, because it’ll just change my mindset. Or when I approach it.

Dawn Baxter 

Yes, I love that and I made a post on Instagram. And it was a reel, I think, a little while ago. And it was it actually came from a conversation that I’d had with a family member. And it was to do with personal stuff actually, it wasn’t necessarily to do with business. But it just felt so similar to conversations I’ve had about business previously with people who aren’t in the industry and don’t understand what it is that we do, and just don’t quite get it. And I sat for the first time in my life, rather than taking on this other person’s ideas. Because I used to be an absorber of everything, I’m getting really good with my diet. And when I say my diet, I mean, not just the things I eat but the things I watch, I read, I consume, you know, content and being really good with, with kind of like cutting out all the crap, or all the things that isn’t in alignment. And I had this conversation. And as we were talking, I could see that this person loved me, I could see that this person was concerned about me. And that initially, the reason why she was speaking the way she was, was out of concern and care, because she doesn’t understand but what she actually did without being conscious of it at all, was she spoke fear into my plans where there was no previous fear. And that felt like, really, I was so grateful for the experience, because I don’t know if I’ve ever sat in a conversation like that previously, and being able to step out of my emotion, and see what is before me with such a clarity, that it couldn’t touch me. Even this person who I absolutely adore, you know, could not speak fear. It was an unshakable confidence in myself, and my decisions that I get where you’re coming from, and I love that you love me that much but there is no possible way for you to understand. And therefore I discount what you’re saying almost completely. And I do that a lot now, I’ve gotten really good at saying no, thank you. I love it when people tell you about yourself, and you don’t resonate with it and I’m like, well, no, actually, that’s not how I feel. And I never used to be like that. I used to be the type of person who would be like, yeah, you’re so right. You know, maybe I need to look at that, maybe I need to work on that. And I would just totally like a sponge just absorb. And now I feel like really strong in my conviction, in my resolve, that actually, I have a great understanding of who I am, what I want and you know that if you speak to me, and it speaks to me in a way that I totally resonate with it, and it aligns with me then great, but if it doesn’t, I’m really good at noticing that. And I can just kind of say yeah, yeah, that’s not how it is for me.

Kerry Moorse 

So that level of awareness is super powerful, being able to be so aware of somebody else’s situation and your own situation to get to step out like that. Yeah, that I love that I think that’s an incredible tool you can use in all coaching situations as well. I will ask you, though, is this diet as hard as an actual diet because otherwise, you know, there’s gonna be a bit of a roadmap there. 

Dawn Baxter 

To be totally honest with you, the consumption of other things and other people’s kind of like ideas and narratives and objections and all of that, that’s actually easier to cut out than the real food. Like, if I’m being completely honest with you, I’m doing really good at cutting out like the crap TV and the things that that don’t serve me unless you talk to me about actual real diet, and then I do still fall down in that area. But I mean, Kerry it’s a process like I’m learning, I’m growing every day, like literally, I’m growing every day.

Kerry Moorse

That’s amazing, because I was going to say I can’t cut out ice cream!  It ain’t happening. 

Dawn Baxter

No, for sure. And you know, one of the things that I’ve been learning recently, I’ve been doing this amazing positive psychology course with Nick Pigeon. And one of the things that I’ve really been learning is that actually there is so much more to the way that we think and the way that we structure our day and I mean I could bore you to death, and we’re nearly at time, so I won’t do that to you. But it’s just been really illuminating. And I think I had qualities in this area before and that’s one of the reasons why I was drawn to go in and get certified in this area because I knew that I’d be able to bring it in to the business. So I kind of recognised this I felt like it was a personal strength and skill that I’ve walked into this whole thing. And it’s not like, it’s not just a personal strength and skill, it’s an actual fully fledged science. And the science is so illuminating. And I love everything to you know that I’ve done the psychology of selling previously and I’ve done the theory of aesthetics, I love digging deep into our minds and figuring out how influence is created and how, you know, we persuade people and how digital marketing works. And what I really love is being able to understand how all of that works, and only ever use it for powers of good.

Kerry Moorse 

Yes, yeah, definitely. And I love one of the things we often talk about, actually, that we were incorporating into our collaborations, is that positive psychology throughout people’s funnels, social, customer journeys, because often people seem to have that negative vibe, if you, you know, if you better do this, or this will happen that kind of vibe. So that’s going to really channel for you. That’s great.

Dawn Baxter 

And then this is something that you and I speak about all the time, right? So, when we have a situation whereby you go into somebody’s sales page, and they can purchase something, and it’s like, the button to buy is yes, I’m in, I want to change my life. But then the button to not buy or skip that page is like, no, I don’t care about my success, or no, I am happy being a failure, or no, I accept that I’m never going to do what I want to do in my life or whatever and it’s like, I find that really difficult when I see it, because I appreciate the psychology behind it. I know that when somebody writes a sales page like that, it’s in order to get somebody to commit it’s to fuel them and divide, you know, those people qualify as a lead, you know, if somebody is really in and they’re hyped, and they’re excited to be in, then they’re going to click Buy. And if they’re maybe not have that energy, then they’ll click the other one. But I think it’s you’ve got to be really careful, especially with just the massive rush of people who now do business online, you have to be really careful with those messages that you’re putting out into the world. And if you’re saying to somebody that not buying my product right now means that you will definitely fail. That’s not cool, man, like, I’m not cool with that.  I think that’s an element where you’re really, you’re looking at something and you’re triggering something, and you’re poking a bruise there that you have no idea how deep or meaningful that could be for somebody, and what that could actually do to how they feel about themselves or their business or their motivation. And I just think that there are some ethical practices and this is what you and I adore about bringing this in ethical funnels, yeah, ethical digital marketing funnels, audience building, the whole shebang. Because, unfortunately, because there are proven sales results and data towards the other side of things, it has made them really popular, has made, possibly people who have a high level of integrity, go against their own methods, their own kind of like, I know people that have made sales pages that have been quite harsh, and those people are like just the loveliest, sweetest, kindest people in the world. But, you know, that’s what a sales page looks like Dawn, but it doesn’t have to be like your sales aren’t dependent on that hard sell all the time. And those icky sales techniques can sometimes be more damaging than they are good, you know. So I think that it’s always something that I love talking to you about, like we could literally chew the fat of that all the time.

Kerry Moorse 

We could I mean, I mean, there’s a couple of things that it’s what people have been taught isn’t it?  People have been taught to do it this way so they think that’s the way to do it. So that’s something we’re both passionate about changing. And there’s also the fact people who use that negative language have an impact on somebody’s mind and also give a negative association to your company. So they leave your company feeling like crap, that’s what they associate your company with. And then also those people who do jump in and buy because they’re doing it out of a place of fear of not buying, often get buyer’s remorse and ask for a refund. And you’ve you know, you’ve got that two week period where you do have to give them a refund. Most people will give a refund in that situation anyway. So on the whole, it’s really not worth it. It’s not worth alienating people. It’s not worth having to deal with more admin and they have that association with your business as being giving that negative vibe that anyone who doesn’t, you know, take the plunge so to speak, because if people we can’t see who’s reading our pages, we don’t know who’s on the other end.  So it’s that like you say the ethical ramifications of that. As well as the sales as well.

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah, totally, totally agree. And I always think that it’s such a strange situation. Because I mean, one of the, if we were going to combine our brains for a moment, and we were going to ask one question of our audience or of our client, the Pretties, or whoever’s listening right now, I think I’m safe to say that our main question we would always ask is, how do you want your customers and clients to feel?

Kerry Moorse

Literally just yeah, I was literally just going to mouth at you. 

Dawn Baxter

Right, like we talk about it all the time. What is that that feeling? I know that, you know, there are lots of different ways to skin that cat. There are lots of different ways to make money. There are lots of different ways to make the sale. But how do you ultimately want your people to feel after that interaction with you? Is it going to be a positive interaction?

Kerry Moorse 

You never want it to be a negative interaction. I mean, that would just be the worst impact you could make. And if your business is about creating impact and helping others, which usually they are, even if you’re just selling products that have no consequences to how people feel the experience you create behind that does, yeah. Yeah, I think it’s really important everyone keeps that in mind.,

Dawn Baxter 

Yeah I agree. Okay, right darling I feel like that was oh, we just ended on 1111 hour and 11 minutes. OMG, I know that. So my Pretties are going love that it was meant to be. But I think that’s a really good time to cut it off. So I just want to say a massive, massive thank you for your time today darling. I know how busy you are right now so I really appreciate you taking the time to come and chat with me. And we should get together and do this again. Because this has been fun. I feel like we’ve covered a lot of ground.

Kerry Moorse

Yeah, I feel like we’ve gone over a few acres there, thank you for having me Dawn.

Dawn Baxter

Thank you, darling, and everybody listening. I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode. And don’t forget to come and find us in the Social Pretties group. And until next time, I’ll see you soon.

If you’re loving our Pretty podcast, come on over to Social Pretties. Our online safe house and sisterhood community its a safe space where female entrepreneurs connect and thrive in a warm welcoming fold of pretty amazing women. You’ll find an easy redirect in the description and I can’t wait to see you in there. And depending on where you’re listening right now, we would love it if you would click subscribe or follow so that you can be the first to know when our new podcasts come out.

 

 

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